"He could say it, because grace is the power to keep promises, not merely—not even fundamentally—the ability to be excused when we do not."
I love this section. A good friend of mine told me once about this priest who would repeat the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner," to himself non-stop (I'm pretty sure it was a fictional story, but still very compelling). So I too have began doing so not even understanding what I was saying, but knowing it needed to be said. Had I need for mercy because of how greatly I was sinning before those moments of prayer? Maybe, but I think now I understand that prayer more. It is not always "Have mercy on me because I just sinned and need your blood to cleanse me," though that may be true. I think now I say it and mean "Have mercy, Lord, that I may walk in your ways right now when I am given this choice to do so."
Mercy and grace to do the right thing, not just to be made right after doing the wrong thing.
Thank you, John. Well said. The "Jesus prayer" is a powerful prayer! And yes, he is SO merciful, that he not only forgives us but binds us closer to him so that we may walk with him more. His kindness leads us to repentance. Amen.
Lots to chew on here. And I need to re-read it I think. But let me throw this out there:
What if there's an option #4? What's tripping me up is what appears to be the assumption that the "We are all the sort of people that could do exactly this thing, at any time" crowd is automatically using that as an excuse to either A) not have to deal with consequences, or B) keep on sinning. But I don't think that's completely fair.
I am in the #3 crowd, I guess. I have a tattoo that says, "He today; I tomorrow." It's a phrase the desert fathers used to say. It wasn't an excuse to sin, it was a call to remembrance and humility. A reminder that, in so many ways, we all have to "be killing sin or it will be killing us" as John Own said. And the moment we stop being active about that, we can (and will) fall.
I think of Peter. He had all the right "stuff" and was in a great relationship with Jesus. But at a moments notice he denied the Lord. He had that inside of him. We see later in life he also had a pull back into legalism.
So what if #4 is "He today; I tomorrow"? It's the humble understanding that we live in a constant state of sanctification. We are being, currently and actively, sanctified. And sometimes that is messy. I know. I was the bestselling Christian author that became an alcoholic. But I didn't keep drinking because I had a skewed view of God's grace allowing me to "go on sinning." I kept drinking because once I made mistakes, the devil used shame to send me further down the hole. (There are a variety of other reasons, too.)
I guess my point is that I think there's a little more room for nuance in stories like Carl's and even mine. I certainly don't excuse what Carl did. There have been consequences and there will be consequences. But I'm not sure he's using God's grace as an excuse. Carl has admitted he was an addict to sex and substances. Those things do wild things to you that make you "stupid."
While you and I can't know for certain if Carl has truly repented, it SEEMS there are many signs of it. I'm just a little scared to say that his comments of grace are being used as an excuse to skirt that true repentance. I hold the "he today; I tomorrow" view, and if you ask those around me they'd tell you I am repentant for what I've done. No excuses. No skirting. No blaming.
Where I fall in your categories, then, I don't know. But man, I am very thankful for God's grace and can see how he's using my story of "messy sanctification" for my good and his glory.
(Edit: Adding that I'm not a fan of Carl's theology. As someone who grew up in Hillsong-like churches that preached prosperity gospel, I've see how damaging that has been. I can't speak to if any of that has changed, so my comments are about his actions. I do agree that shepherds are held to a higher standard and must answer for leading people astray, and their theology is a big part of that.)
I really appreciate this response, Jonathon. "We all have to be killing sin or it will be killing us," indeed. I should be clear that I definitely did NOT mean to say that Carl was using his doctrine of sin and grace as an excuse. I don't know him or the situation well enough to know the nature of his repentance, and I definitely didn't mean to cast doubt upon it. I also think you're right that it is too simple to think that people who say "But for the grace of God" in sense #3 are all using it as an excuse. I definitely don't believe they're all *consciously* doing that. My concern is that certain habits of speech and thought can bloom into unhealthy patterns of being, whether the person ever meant for that to happen or not. And a view of sin/grace that flirts with flattening personal agency can do that. Your points still stand though.
The other thing I will add, which New Realm already addressed, is that this post (and most of my writing) is not for new Christians. I am writing to pastors and teachers and fathers, those who have assumed some mantle of spiritual authority, and therefore are held to higher account. Most of the "accountability groups" I have been in, past the age of 30, are full of husbands, fathers, and leaders who, when it comes to sin, rarely see themselves according to their roles. In the office and at church, they may assume leadership roles. In the household, they also try to lead. But in the accountability group, they often act as though their battle with pornography is really just a battle for personal piety. They don't see how high the stakes are, how much people NEED them to be trustworthy. I think accountability groups would work much better if we surrounded ourselves with people who NEEDED us to be trustworthy, rather than peers helping each other along their individual, private journey to personal piety. Anyway, those are some initial thoughts. Let's continue the conversation!
I appreciate YOUR thoughtful response. It seems we're more aligned than I thought. I do have to react to this:
"Most of the 'accountability groups' I have been in, past the age of 30, are full of husbands, fathers, and leaders who, when it comes to sin, rarely see themselves according to their roles. In the office and at church, they may assume leadership roles. In the household, they also try to lead. But in the accountability group, they often act as though their battle with pornography is really just a battle for personal piety. They don't see how high the stakes are, how much people NEED them to be trustworthy. I think accountability groups would work much better if we surrounded ourselves with people who NEEDED us to be trustworthy, rather than peers helping each other along their individual, private journey to personal piety."
MY GOODNESS! When my new book comes out, you're going to chuckle. I have a section in there about why we need "radical" vulnerability and not just "regular" vulnerability, and I think you're going to love it. Too many times in men's accountability groups we talk about having "a little lust problem," when really the issue is a full-on porn addiction. But by "confessing" to what seems like the lesser sin, the man is assuaging his conscience and then goes on doing exactly what he's been doing all along. Ugh.
Once again, I appreciate you. Looking forward to reading more from you.
Still haven’t found time to respond to everyone, but yes, this clarifies my main point. Thank you. I am much more talking about how sin and grace work higher up the hierarchy. And your allusion to the weaker and the stronger is perfect. Hopefully I can add more to Jonathon’s comment soon! In the meantime, thank you!
Thanks for this man. Lots to chew on here. First things that comes to mind are the qualifications for elders and deacons in 1 Timothy. Also Jesus's continued admonition to "go and *sin no more*."
I teach at a private Christian school, and it's my growing conviction that the most significant reason young people who grow up in our broadly Evangelical stream leave their faith is because of the thinness of the Christianity given to them, which you're identifying here. We have all of the language - sin, grace, Gospel, redemption - but that language so rarely correlates with anything concrete, anything flesh and blood. Our words have no salt. I'm increasingly convinced that questions of sexuality, politics and apologetics have almost nothing to do with young people leaving the church in comparison to this.
Robert, so well said. I totally agree. We have all the right language and ideas, but we're only skimming off the surface of the well. We need cooler, deeper draughts to keep us alive. I'm not sure if you saw may last two posts, but they're ALL about what you're talking about. Would love to know what you think. They're really just one post; this one: https://www.patientkingdom.com/p/when-the-truth-isnt-true-enough. The one after is just the 5-minute version of that one: https://www.patientkingdom.com/p/blank-slate-theology-vs-a-theology
Anyway, keep up the good and important work you're doing! I'm so glad you're seeing what you're seeing and doing your small part to help kids reclaim and re-embody the deeper well.
Yes, been chewing on the 5-minute version & really looking forward to diving into the full piece! You've been putting words to questions I've had for years but haven't had any vocabulary for asking. Your piece on the Parable of the Sower was a MAJOR "aha" moment for me last spring.
Theologians like to think that it's bad theology which damages the church, but the truth is much more uncomfortable -- sexual sin and broken trust empties the pews and tarnishes the name of Christ ever so much more than any misplaced line of theology.
It boggles my mind that men such as Lentz are ever allowed to exercise authority again, or at least, so quickly after their public sins are made known. They should sit quietly in the pew with their brothers and sisters for decades as they allow God's grace to work in their lives before anyone asks them to lead others again.
Indeed, this is why Jesus and the writers of the NT were so concerned not just that believers download doctrine but, much more, integrate and embody the truth they had come to believe. The problem with the Pharisees was not so much that they were doctrinally wrong as that they weren't trustworthily *living* the things they were preaching: "Do what they say, not what they do."
Beautiful words, ripe for this context. I cannot speak directly to Carl's consciousness of his own misdeeds. I have spoken with some closer to him who would say he is very aware and in a healthy process of redeeming what was lost. But your lyrics here still ring true generally, especially for spiritual leaders. For those of us who presume to pastor, the weight of sin should fall heaviest upon us. Thanks for this.
Thank you for this, as a former PK of "small town" Carl Lentz. You did well capturing the true gravitas of what it is like on the inside of these tragic events. It hurts when people trivialize it under grace. Although I don't begrudge those using "but for the grace of God..." or implying the potential for darkness inside of us if they take it as call to be vigilant and not just flippant.
After seeing my most trusted spiritual mentor and father go off the deep end, someone who me or him would have never thought do the things he did... it is hard now to completely 100% trust myself, even though I reject fatalism and generational curses, and cling to making positive resolves amd promises going forward.
Still I saw a lot of little sins add up and chip away slowly at a man till they became a "big" sin... so I think if we can have somehow both the resolve it will not happen to us but reject the naivete that it couldn't happen to us, so that we remain vigilant against the darkness of our sinful nature. I wonder if that is a healthy approach?
What a beautiful response. Thank you for this. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience, and agree completely with your conclusion. Both mercy and vigilance are needed. I pray you would continue to see more freedom, relief, and redemption in your family and life after all of that. Grace abounds. Thank you for reading this and responding so vulnerably. It means a lot.
Thank you, as always, Ross! You inspire us all to a higher standard with truth from the Bible. The truth clearly comes from your love of God and his people.
It is such a rare thing to find a piece which does not trivialize the wounding effects of sin, nor limit the eternal mercy of God. I think you did both splendidly. My husband works with addicts and often says that whenever a person--usually a man--tries to control the narrative on their sin, they are still in bondage to it. Thank you for tying soul to body, brother, and for giving me a number of valuable things to think on. Peace be with you!
Brooke, thank you for your kind words. “Not limiting the wounding effects of sin nor limiting the eternal mercy of God,” is definitely my aim. So glad you could see that and agree.
It is such a rare thing to find a piece which does not trivialize the wounding effects of sin, nor limit the eternal mercy of God. I think you did both splendidly. My husband works with addicts and often says that whenever a person--usually a man--tries to control the narrative on their sin, they are still in bondage to it. Thank you for tying soul to body, brother, and for giving me a number of valuable things to think on. Peace be with you!
The prevalence of sexual sin in evangelical churches has led me to believe that evangelicalism has implicit incorrect assumptions about the essence of sex and marriage.
Yes. The problems with sex are obviously not unique to Evangelicalism(!), but we definitely seem to have our own subcultural pathologies. I'm not sure they are exactly what the mainliners and exvangelicals think they are, but we have issues, for sure. The internet has also brought the omnipresence of pornography AND the prevalence of "famous pastors," both of which are not helpful.
I’m a woman, but this was incredibly convicting—many universal truths in here that apply to all believers. Thanks for writing this, it’s a sobering reminder.
This was so good Ross. I've paid close attention to these matters for the last 4-5 years, ever since my wife and I began a whistleblowing process with Mike Bickle's son (who seduced the wife of a close friend), and that process eventually led to the exposure of Mike himself ... and of course my youth minister, as you must know, committed similar acts as did yours.
So I have become an unfortunate connoisseur of how spiritual leaders slither away from true repentance, and concurrently a sobered appreciator of the ways in which spiritual and worldly power can truly twist a soul without the proper guard and care.
I read this piece with great interest, and great appreciation for the important points you brought out. "Sin Flattening" (per your point #3) is a powerful but extremely subtle way in which leaders avoid true accountability and repentance. IMHO, it is perhaps a primary driver for so many fallen-away friends. It grieves me deeply.
Anyway, thank you for using YOUR pen and platform to such redemptive ends. Many blessings, my old friend.
Thank you, Nate. I have followed your experiences and work on this from afar. I'm so sorry about all that stuff with the Bickles. I can only imagine. And yes, I'm familiar with church growing up too. I like your term, "sin flattening." Well said. Really glad you read this and dropped a line. Hope you guys are well. Thank you for the encouragement. Means a lot.
I am so sorry for the wounds that were caused by Carl, and I can hear in your writing a longing for true justice in honesty and clarity on his part. I wholeheartedly agree with all that was said here.
It is unjust and a further expression of the machine/empire to cover up in darkness what should be revealed to the light. In doing that, the gospel gains true power as good news. Not a disembodied salvation, but one with real, great, and accounted for costs.
"Not a disembodied salvation, but one with real, great, and accounted for costs." Yes, indeed. That's what we're aiming for! And thank you for your condolences. While we are close with some members of Carl's family (which made this hard to write), I should be clear that I don't know Carl personally and was not under his leadership/care, so I definitely don't consider myself one of those sinned against. (I also have no reason to doubt that Carl is contrite and making amends.) My point was had to do with the broader church. His recent words simply gave me a jumping off point. But again, thank you.
"He could say it, because grace is the power to keep promises, not merely—not even fundamentally—the ability to be excused when we do not."
I love this section. A good friend of mine told me once about this priest who would repeat the prayer "Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me a sinner," to himself non-stop (I'm pretty sure it was a fictional story, but still very compelling). So I too have began doing so not even understanding what I was saying, but knowing it needed to be said. Had I need for mercy because of how greatly I was sinning before those moments of prayer? Maybe, but I think now I understand that prayer more. It is not always "Have mercy on me because I just sinned and need your blood to cleanse me," though that may be true. I think now I say it and mean "Have mercy, Lord, that I may walk in your ways right now when I am given this choice to do so."
Mercy and grace to do the right thing, not just to be made right after doing the wrong thing.
Thanks again Ross!
Thanks for sharing that word, already greatly benefiting from the practice of the prayer you shared
A great prayer indeed. Let’s get together soon, brother..
Thank you, John. Well said. The "Jesus prayer" is a powerful prayer! And yes, he is SO merciful, that he not only forgives us but binds us closer to him so that we may walk with him more. His kindness leads us to repentance. Amen.
Woman reader here for whom this piece was not written — nevertheless, I say “Bravo.”
Haha, thank you Christina! You are welcome here.
Lots to chew on here. And I need to re-read it I think. But let me throw this out there:
What if there's an option #4? What's tripping me up is what appears to be the assumption that the "We are all the sort of people that could do exactly this thing, at any time" crowd is automatically using that as an excuse to either A) not have to deal with consequences, or B) keep on sinning. But I don't think that's completely fair.
I am in the #3 crowd, I guess. I have a tattoo that says, "He today; I tomorrow." It's a phrase the desert fathers used to say. It wasn't an excuse to sin, it was a call to remembrance and humility. A reminder that, in so many ways, we all have to "be killing sin or it will be killing us" as John Own said. And the moment we stop being active about that, we can (and will) fall.
I think of Peter. He had all the right "stuff" and was in a great relationship with Jesus. But at a moments notice he denied the Lord. He had that inside of him. We see later in life he also had a pull back into legalism.
So what if #4 is "He today; I tomorrow"? It's the humble understanding that we live in a constant state of sanctification. We are being, currently and actively, sanctified. And sometimes that is messy. I know. I was the bestselling Christian author that became an alcoholic. But I didn't keep drinking because I had a skewed view of God's grace allowing me to "go on sinning." I kept drinking because once I made mistakes, the devil used shame to send me further down the hole. (There are a variety of other reasons, too.)
I guess my point is that I think there's a little more room for nuance in stories like Carl's and even mine. I certainly don't excuse what Carl did. There have been consequences and there will be consequences. But I'm not sure he's using God's grace as an excuse. Carl has admitted he was an addict to sex and substances. Those things do wild things to you that make you "stupid."
While you and I can't know for certain if Carl has truly repented, it SEEMS there are many signs of it. I'm just a little scared to say that his comments of grace are being used as an excuse to skirt that true repentance. I hold the "he today; I tomorrow" view, and if you ask those around me they'd tell you I am repentant for what I've done. No excuses. No skirting. No blaming.
Where I fall in your categories, then, I don't know. But man, I am very thankful for God's grace and can see how he's using my story of "messy sanctification" for my good and his glory.
(Edit: Adding that I'm not a fan of Carl's theology. As someone who grew up in Hillsong-like churches that preached prosperity gospel, I've see how damaging that has been. I can't speak to if any of that has changed, so my comments are about his actions. I do agree that shepherds are held to a higher standard and must answer for leading people astray, and their theology is a big part of that.)
I really appreciate this response, Jonathon. "We all have to be killing sin or it will be killing us," indeed. I should be clear that I definitely did NOT mean to say that Carl was using his doctrine of sin and grace as an excuse. I don't know him or the situation well enough to know the nature of his repentance, and I definitely didn't mean to cast doubt upon it. I also think you're right that it is too simple to think that people who say "But for the grace of God" in sense #3 are all using it as an excuse. I definitely don't believe they're all *consciously* doing that. My concern is that certain habits of speech and thought can bloom into unhealthy patterns of being, whether the person ever meant for that to happen or not. And a view of sin/grace that flirts with flattening personal agency can do that. Your points still stand though.
The other thing I will add, which New Realm already addressed, is that this post (and most of my writing) is not for new Christians. I am writing to pastors and teachers and fathers, those who have assumed some mantle of spiritual authority, and therefore are held to higher account. Most of the "accountability groups" I have been in, past the age of 30, are full of husbands, fathers, and leaders who, when it comes to sin, rarely see themselves according to their roles. In the office and at church, they may assume leadership roles. In the household, they also try to lead. But in the accountability group, they often act as though their battle with pornography is really just a battle for personal piety. They don't see how high the stakes are, how much people NEED them to be trustworthy. I think accountability groups would work much better if we surrounded ourselves with people who NEEDED us to be trustworthy, rather than peers helping each other along their individual, private journey to personal piety. Anyway, those are some initial thoughts. Let's continue the conversation!
Also, for what it's worth, I have written in depth about the problem of agency, here: https://www.patientkingdom.com/p/the-spirit-or-the-kick-drum. I think you might really enjoy it, judging from your content.
And also here: https://www.patientkingdom.com/p/possessed-by-the-holy-spirit
I appreciate YOUR thoughtful response. It seems we're more aligned than I thought. I do have to react to this:
"Most of the 'accountability groups' I have been in, past the age of 30, are full of husbands, fathers, and leaders who, when it comes to sin, rarely see themselves according to their roles. In the office and at church, they may assume leadership roles. In the household, they also try to lead. But in the accountability group, they often act as though their battle with pornography is really just a battle for personal piety. They don't see how high the stakes are, how much people NEED them to be trustworthy. I think accountability groups would work much better if we surrounded ourselves with people who NEEDED us to be trustworthy, rather than peers helping each other along their individual, private journey to personal piety."
MY GOODNESS! When my new book comes out, you're going to chuckle. I have a section in there about why we need "radical" vulnerability and not just "regular" vulnerability, and I think you're going to love it. Too many times in men's accountability groups we talk about having "a little lust problem," when really the issue is a full-on porn addiction. But by "confessing" to what seems like the lesser sin, the man is assuaging his conscience and then goes on doing exactly what he's been doing all along. Ugh.
Once again, I appreciate you. Looking forward to reading more from you.
Oh nice! Do you have a title yet?
“Confessions of a Christian Alcoholic.” It will follow my “messy sanctification” story.
Still haven’t found time to respond to everyone, but yes, this clarifies my main point. Thank you. I am much more talking about how sin and grace work higher up the hierarchy. And your allusion to the weaker and the stronger is perfect. Hopefully I can add more to Jonathon’s comment soon! In the meantime, thank you!
Thanks for this man. Lots to chew on here. First things that comes to mind are the qualifications for elders and deacons in 1 Timothy. Also Jesus's continued admonition to "go and *sin no more*."
I teach at a private Christian school, and it's my growing conviction that the most significant reason young people who grow up in our broadly Evangelical stream leave their faith is because of the thinness of the Christianity given to them, which you're identifying here. We have all of the language - sin, grace, Gospel, redemption - but that language so rarely correlates with anything concrete, anything flesh and blood. Our words have no salt. I'm increasingly convinced that questions of sexuality, politics and apologetics have almost nothing to do with young people leaving the church in comparison to this.
Thanks for your work here on the Stack.
Robert, so well said. I totally agree. We have all the right language and ideas, but we're only skimming off the surface of the well. We need cooler, deeper draughts to keep us alive. I'm not sure if you saw may last two posts, but they're ALL about what you're talking about. Would love to know what you think. They're really just one post; this one: https://www.patientkingdom.com/p/when-the-truth-isnt-true-enough. The one after is just the 5-minute version of that one: https://www.patientkingdom.com/p/blank-slate-theology-vs-a-theology
Anyway, keep up the good and important work you're doing! I'm so glad you're seeing what you're seeing and doing your small part to help kids reclaim and re-embody the deeper well.
Yes, been chewing on the 5-minute version & really looking forward to diving into the full piece! You've been putting words to questions I've had for years but haven't had any vocabulary for asking. Your piece on the Parable of the Sower was a MAJOR "aha" moment for me last spring.
Theologians like to think that it's bad theology which damages the church, but the truth is much more uncomfortable -- sexual sin and broken trust empties the pews and tarnishes the name of Christ ever so much more than any misplaced line of theology.
It boggles my mind that men such as Lentz are ever allowed to exercise authority again, or at least, so quickly after their public sins are made known. They should sit quietly in the pew with their brothers and sisters for decades as they allow God's grace to work in their lives before anyone asks them to lead others again.
Indeed, this is why Jesus and the writers of the NT were so concerned not just that believers download doctrine but, much more, integrate and embody the truth they had come to believe. The problem with the Pharisees was not so much that they were doctrinally wrong as that they weren't trustworthily *living* the things they were preaching: "Do what they say, not what they do."
Thank you! The clarification is appreciated and a needful reminder to all of us as followers of Jesus Christ.
Thanks for this lovely comment!
Lenz appears gleefully unbothered by the repercussions of his sin on his own soul, his family, the church, unbelievers, etc.
"Ye who think of sin but lightly,
nor suppose the evil great,
here may view its nature rightly,
here its guilt may estimate.
Mark the sacrifice appointed;
see who bears the awful load;
'tis the Word, the Lord's Anointed,
Son of Man and Son of God."
Beautiful words, ripe for this context. I cannot speak directly to Carl's consciousness of his own misdeeds. I have spoken with some closer to him who would say he is very aware and in a healthy process of redeeming what was lost. But your lyrics here still ring true generally, especially for spiritual leaders. For those of us who presume to pastor, the weight of sin should fall heaviest upon us. Thanks for this.
Thank you for this, as a former PK of "small town" Carl Lentz. You did well capturing the true gravitas of what it is like on the inside of these tragic events. It hurts when people trivialize it under grace. Although I don't begrudge those using "but for the grace of God..." or implying the potential for darkness inside of us if they take it as call to be vigilant and not just flippant.
After seeing my most trusted spiritual mentor and father go off the deep end, someone who me or him would have never thought do the things he did... it is hard now to completely 100% trust myself, even though I reject fatalism and generational curses, and cling to making positive resolves amd promises going forward.
Still I saw a lot of little sins add up and chip away slowly at a man till they became a "big" sin... so I think if we can have somehow both the resolve it will not happen to us but reject the naivete that it couldn't happen to us, so that we remain vigilant against the darkness of our sinful nature. I wonder if that is a healthy approach?
What a beautiful response. Thank you for this. I'm so sorry to hear about your experience, and agree completely with your conclusion. Both mercy and vigilance are needed. I pray you would continue to see more freedom, relief, and redemption in your family and life after all of that. Grace abounds. Thank you for reading this and responding so vulnerably. It means a lot.
Thanks for your prayers, that means a lot too :)
Thank you, as always, Ross! You inspire us all to a higher standard with truth from the Bible. The truth clearly comes from your love of God and his people.
Thank you, John. Blessings.
It is such a rare thing to find a piece which does not trivialize the wounding effects of sin, nor limit the eternal mercy of God. I think you did both splendidly. My husband works with addicts and often says that whenever a person--usually a man--tries to control the narrative on their sin, they are still in bondage to it. Thank you for tying soul to body, brother, and for giving me a number of valuable things to think on. Peace be with you!
Brooke, thank you for your kind words. “Not limiting the wounding effects of sin nor limiting the eternal mercy of God,” is definitely my aim. So glad you could see that and agree.
It is such a rare thing to find a piece which does not trivialize the wounding effects of sin, nor limit the eternal mercy of God. I think you did both splendidly. My husband works with addicts and often says that whenever a person--usually a man--tries to control the narrative on their sin, they are still in bondage to it. Thank you for tying soul to body, brother, and for giving me a number of valuable things to think on. Peace be with you!
Great post as usual!
The prevalence of sexual sin in evangelical churches has led me to believe that evangelicalism has implicit incorrect assumptions about the essence of sex and marriage.
Yes. The problems with sex are obviously not unique to Evangelicalism(!), but we definitely seem to have our own subcultural pathologies. I'm not sure they are exactly what the mainliners and exvangelicals think they are, but we have issues, for sure. The internet has also brought the omnipresence of pornography AND the prevalence of "famous pastors," both of which are not helpful.
I’m a woman, but this was incredibly convicting—many universal truths in here that apply to all believers. Thanks for writing this, it’s a sobering reminder.
Hi Rosa, thank you for reading and responding. So glad it spoke to you!
This was so good Ross. I've paid close attention to these matters for the last 4-5 years, ever since my wife and I began a whistleblowing process with Mike Bickle's son (who seduced the wife of a close friend), and that process eventually led to the exposure of Mike himself ... and of course my youth minister, as you must know, committed similar acts as did yours.
So I have become an unfortunate connoisseur of how spiritual leaders slither away from true repentance, and concurrently a sobered appreciator of the ways in which spiritual and worldly power can truly twist a soul without the proper guard and care.
I read this piece with great interest, and great appreciation for the important points you brought out. "Sin Flattening" (per your point #3) is a powerful but extremely subtle way in which leaders avoid true accountability and repentance. IMHO, it is perhaps a primary driver for so many fallen-away friends. It grieves me deeply.
Anyway, thank you for using YOUR pen and platform to such redemptive ends. Many blessings, my old friend.
Thank you, Nate. I have followed your experiences and work on this from afar. I'm so sorry about all that stuff with the Bickles. I can only imagine. And yes, I'm familiar with church growing up too. I like your term, "sin flattening." Well said. Really glad you read this and dropped a line. Hope you guys are well. Thank you for the encouragement. Means a lot.
Thank you for writing and sharing this.
I am so sorry for the wounds that were caused by Carl, and I can hear in your writing a longing for true justice in honesty and clarity on his part. I wholeheartedly agree with all that was said here.
It is unjust and a further expression of the machine/empire to cover up in darkness what should be revealed to the light. In doing that, the gospel gains true power as good news. Not a disembodied salvation, but one with real, great, and accounted for costs.
"Not a disembodied salvation, but one with real, great, and accounted for costs." Yes, indeed. That's what we're aiming for! And thank you for your condolences. While we are close with some members of Carl's family (which made this hard to write), I should be clear that I don't know Carl personally and was not under his leadership/care, so I definitely don't consider myself one of those sinned against. (I also have no reason to doubt that Carl is contrite and making amends.) My point was had to do with the broader church. His recent words simply gave me a jumping off point. But again, thank you.
Great perspective here, and thank you for sharing your experience and heart.
Thank you, Adam. Thanks for reading!