I like the article Ross, and agree with many of your points. Regarding point 3, I wonder if the 'professionalisation' of priests/pastors is part of the problem too. You say they must be highly educated, but I'm not so sure. In my experience, the pastors who have best reflected what you describe are those without (or with very little) formal theological training. Maybe because this leaves them more humble and dependent on God and Holy Spirit? Maybe because they haven't be told what to think about certain issues? I don't know. There was obviously no such thing as Bible College for the early apostles, their authority was from God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and they could lead because of the way they lived out their loyalty to Jesus, not because of a certain amount of training.
I'm not sure if that makes sense? What do you think?
Very well said. Yeah, this deserves clarification on my part. When I said, "They should be well-trained and highly qualified, though not necessarily impressive," I didn't necessarily mean "highly educated" as in, the recipients of many formal degrees. I was keying into a theme in the New Testament: that spiritual leaders should not be new to the faith, that they should be above reproach in their communities, with good reputations and healthy, faithful families. I also *do* think they should be well-trained, as the role of a pastor requires--besides the obvious prerequisite of deep faith and faithfulness--certain knowledge, skills, and discernment without which the pastor may fail. For those in places of spiritual authority, malpractice and negligence due to immaturity and obliviousness can still be sin, even with no malicious intent. But yes, most of the wisdom and skill required need not come from formal academic training. In fact, I lament that often it cannot be found there! I think the better way is something like incremental ordination to the level of priest/pastor/elder, where those who feel called are first made deacons (a position which centers on service rather than leadership) so that a long season of on-sight training can occur.
Your point about education being co-opted by the secular world put words to something I have been thinking as a future educator! People are flooding out of the profession because it takes a Christian worldview to delight in a child and discipline them, to offer unconditional care and unconditional push toward academic excellence. The people leaving and citing impossible standards are right. The care of even one little soul is too much responsibility! That’s another reason for the necessity of a Christian worldview: I can only pour so much out for the kids because the Spirit pours into me, I can only hold them because I am held by the Father, I can only sacrifice for them because the Son is on the cross for me. (Note: if only I could think like this in the moment. Instead I am nearly pulling my hair out because child A is arguing with child B about a spot in line for the third. time. today. while child C is rolling around on the floor 😭)
Hi Kate, what a thoughtful comment. I'm glad people like you are our future educators! Impossible standards indeed. Everything worth doing must be done through the Spirit. Keep up the good work.
Great article. Your two movements are sound, I think. But I am wary of using Bible stories in this way—as allegories to understand our times and suggest new ways to live or new paths to follow.
However, don't you think the world that brought forth parishes, steeples, priests, and people no longer exists? There is this pesky thing called denominationalism, not to mention the Reformation. Steeples were built to be a landmark on a road to guide the traveler to church. Can you imagine if every church thought they were the church that should mark the way to church? Every town or city would look like a porcupine! (I'm sure you know this, but clergy competed with each other in the realm of steeples by building taller ones than their neighboring town's parish.)
Well said! I am also wary of using Bible stories as allegories for the present. But, at the same time, these stories aren’t just isolated accounts. To me, they reveal the deepest patterns of reality. Of course, this doesn’t AT ALL guarantee that we will do a good job interpreting and applying them.
As far as parishes, steeples, and priests go, I see your point. I was using these more as symbolic images. As I say in the piece, I don’t want us to go backward to some nostalgic past. I think these symbols stood the test of time because the realities they represent are true and can still be true, though may take different shape in our moment. I, like you, despise the competitiveness and divisiveness of denominationalism, but I still think a church can believe it is truly the body of Christ without believing that it is the *only* true representation of that body.
I really loves the “Joseph” vs “Moses” contrast. I think it gets to the heart of the problem.
In terms of how to bring it about, that is really the question, right? I’m seeing a good amount of traction among simple churches (home based) by getting newer leaders into leadership sooner w no formal training. Let’s try stuff anyway.
Thanks Jonathan! Agreed. How to bring it about it the question. Yes, agreed, we are seeing similar traction in our own community, though I also think something like the opposite (more formal / set apart / priestly leaders) is also needed. Both at the same time. Not that they need to be super formally educated. But I think they should understand themselves to be ordained into a holy role. That sort of thing.
That last line gave me chills! This essay puts words to what I am seeing all around me. I feel this in my church in ATL. We do SO many things together as a community. It feels like home, but a home that calls me higher while also offering more safety and acceptance.
That depends. If we come like the thief on the cross, then yes. If we come like Ananias and Sapphira, I wouldn’t recommend it. Death by holiness isn’t just an Old Testament thing.
I like the article Ross, and agree with many of your points. Regarding point 3, I wonder if the 'professionalisation' of priests/pastors is part of the problem too. You say they must be highly educated, but I'm not so sure. In my experience, the pastors who have best reflected what you describe are those without (or with very little) formal theological training. Maybe because this leaves them more humble and dependent on God and Holy Spirit? Maybe because they haven't be told what to think about certain issues? I don't know. There was obviously no such thing as Bible College for the early apostles, their authority was from God/Jesus/Holy Spirit and they could lead because of the way they lived out their loyalty to Jesus, not because of a certain amount of training.
I'm not sure if that makes sense? What do you think?
Very well said. Yeah, this deserves clarification on my part. When I said, "They should be well-trained and highly qualified, though not necessarily impressive," I didn't necessarily mean "highly educated" as in, the recipients of many formal degrees. I was keying into a theme in the New Testament: that spiritual leaders should not be new to the faith, that they should be above reproach in their communities, with good reputations and healthy, faithful families. I also *do* think they should be well-trained, as the role of a pastor requires--besides the obvious prerequisite of deep faith and faithfulness--certain knowledge, skills, and discernment without which the pastor may fail. For those in places of spiritual authority, malpractice and negligence due to immaturity and obliviousness can still be sin, even with no malicious intent. But yes, most of the wisdom and skill required need not come from formal academic training. In fact, I lament that often it cannot be found there! I think the better way is something like incremental ordination to the level of priest/pastor/elder, where those who feel called are first made deacons (a position which centers on service rather than leadership) so that a long season of on-sight training can occur.
Your point about education being co-opted by the secular world put words to something I have been thinking as a future educator! People are flooding out of the profession because it takes a Christian worldview to delight in a child and discipline them, to offer unconditional care and unconditional push toward academic excellence. The people leaving and citing impossible standards are right. The care of even one little soul is too much responsibility! That’s another reason for the necessity of a Christian worldview: I can only pour so much out for the kids because the Spirit pours into me, I can only hold them because I am held by the Father, I can only sacrifice for them because the Son is on the cross for me. (Note: if only I could think like this in the moment. Instead I am nearly pulling my hair out because child A is arguing with child B about a spot in line for the third. time. today. while child C is rolling around on the floor 😭)
Hi Kate, what a thoughtful comment. I'm glad people like you are our future educators! Impossible standards indeed. Everything worth doing must be done through the Spirit. Keep up the good work.
Great article. Your two movements are sound, I think. But I am wary of using Bible stories in this way—as allegories to understand our times and suggest new ways to live or new paths to follow.
However, don't you think the world that brought forth parishes, steeples, priests, and people no longer exists? There is this pesky thing called denominationalism, not to mention the Reformation. Steeples were built to be a landmark on a road to guide the traveler to church. Can you imagine if every church thought they were the church that should mark the way to church? Every town or city would look like a porcupine! (I'm sure you know this, but clergy competed with each other in the realm of steeples by building taller ones than their neighboring town's parish.)
(Methinks you might be an Anglican, btw.)
Well said! I am also wary of using Bible stories as allegories for the present. But, at the same time, these stories aren’t just isolated accounts. To me, they reveal the deepest patterns of reality. Of course, this doesn’t AT ALL guarantee that we will do a good job interpreting and applying them.
As far as parishes, steeples, and priests go, I see your point. I was using these more as symbolic images. As I say in the piece, I don’t want us to go backward to some nostalgic past. I think these symbols stood the test of time because the realities they represent are true and can still be true, though may take different shape in our moment. I, like you, despise the competitiveness and divisiveness of denominationalism, but I still think a church can believe it is truly the body of Christ without believing that it is the *only* true representation of that body.
I really loves the “Joseph” vs “Moses” contrast. I think it gets to the heart of the problem.
In terms of how to bring it about, that is really the question, right? I’m seeing a good amount of traction among simple churches (home based) by getting newer leaders into leadership sooner w no formal training. Let’s try stuff anyway.
Thanks Jonathan! Agreed. How to bring it about it the question. Yes, agreed, we are seeing similar traction in our own community, though I also think something like the opposite (more formal / set apart / priestly leaders) is also needed. Both at the same time. Not that they need to be super formally educated. But I think they should understand themselves to be ordained into a holy role. That sort of thing.
That last line gave me chills! This essay puts words to what I am seeing all around me. I feel this in my church in ATL. We do SO many things together as a community. It feels like home, but a home that calls me higher while also offering more safety and acceptance.
Wow thanks MA! So glad you’re getting a glimpse of this already. Here’s to more of it.
Can we come as we were? As you want us to be? As a friend? As a known enemy?
That depends. If we come like the thief on the cross, then yes. If we come like Ananias and Sapphira, I wouldn’t recommend it. Death by holiness isn’t just an Old Testament thing.